Discussion:
blat being filtered?
(too old to reply)
x243win
2007-01-11 19:37:46 UTC
Permalink
We seem to suddenly be having problems with MX Logic classifying mail
sent with blat as spam.

As a test, we sent mail from person A to B with bcc to C (all
addresses within our domain) using Eudora and everything worked fine.

Then we did the same scenario using blat and both the message and the
bcc landed in the recipients spam boxes at MX Logic. We tried it
without the bcc and it still got filtered.

Has anyone else seen anything like this?

Thanks. -Eric
namtog
2007-01-11 21:29:43 UTC
Permalink
Greetings Eric,

You wrote;
"Has anyone else seen anything like this?"

Nope. Would, if you have the time, mind sending
me a email with Blat and then with Eudora.

It would be best if they both were identical.

To help me find them please post the subject here
on the YGB.

Namtog
namtog at yahoo dot com
***@yahoo.com
x243win
2007-01-12 15:36:51 UTC
Permalink
Namtog,
Thanks for the reply. So far it seems that the problem is confined to
email sent within our own domain. Email to outside addresses seems to
get through, so I think the test you suggest would not reveal
anything, but I will try it anyway. The subject lines will be MX Logic
Test From Eudora, and MX Logic Test From Blat.

Thank you very much for your willingness to help.

-Eric
Post by namtog
Greetings Eric,
You wrote;
"Has anyone else seen anything like this?"
Nope. Would, if you have the time, mind sending
me a email with Blat and then with Eudora.
It would be best if they both were identical.
To help me find them please post the subject here
on the YGB.
Namtog
namtog at yahoo dot com
namtog
2007-01-12 17:23:24 UTC
Permalink
Greetings,

Eric wrote;
"Email to outside addresses seems to
get through, so I think the test you
suggest would not reveal anything,
but I will try it anyway."

I received your two test emails. Mostly I
looked for differences between them. After
copying the headers to two text files I
used a simple file compare utility.

These are some of the differences.

Note: I deleted the private info from this
YGB post with <snip>. Eric was sent a private
unedited response.

1. Sender.................Subject;
<snip>


2.Different Message-Id.
<snip>


3. X-Mailer.

X-Mailer:Blat v2.5.0 w/GSS encryption, a Win32 SMTP/NNTP mailer
http://www.blat.net

X-Mailer:QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0

4. From via MX Logic Test From Blat.
<snip>


4a. From via MX Logic Test From Eudora.

<snip>

The point being that you will need to go through each item
until you find the one that MX Logic objects to.

Points 1 and 4/4a should be easy enough.

Item 2, Notice the different *.com?

@*******.com

@*************.Com

Number 3 applies to what Tim wrote;

"One thing
you could try is adding the -noh2 option and see if that helps.

-noh : prevent X-Mailer/User-Agent header from showing Blat homepage
-noh2 : prevent X-Mailer header entirely"

There are a few more differences. You get to look for those yourself.

If after changing these differences you still get
bounced by MX Logic you will most likely need to
modify the Blat source to spoof Eudora. You can
get the Blat source from the website. If this gets
to be a bit much of a bother for you there are
people here who are capable of this work.

Namtog
Tim Musson
2007-01-12 18:09:41 UTC
Permalink
n> These are some of the differences.

I had another though.

When you send from Eudora and Blat, is it coming from the same
computer (IP Address)?
--
Tim Musson
Flying with The Bat! eMail v3.95.6
They call it PMS because MadCow Disease was already taken.
Blat Manager, current version is 2.6.1, see www.blat.net
namtog
2007-01-12 19:22:10 UTC
Permalink
Greetings,

Tim wrote;
"When you send from Eudora and Blat,
is it coming from the same computer
(IP Address)?"

The X-Originating-IP is the same. Maybe
Eric would send you a pair of email's.
Your eyes are far more experienced that mine.

Namtog
x243win
2007-01-12 20:32:05 UTC
Permalink
I can do that if Tim wants. I should say that we regard this as an MX
Logic problem and not a Blat problem, but I came here looking for
leads to help get to the bottom of it. The job in which the problem
cropped up is something we do 4 times a year, and this is the first
time we have had trouble with it. We have gotten a response from MX
Logic saying that their Threat Department will investigate and maybe
adjust the rules in 24 to 48 hrs. I plan to try the same test on
Monday. I will try to let you know what happens.

For now, thanks to both of you and Tim for your time and help.

-Eric
Post by namtog
Greetings,
Tim wrote;
"When you send from Eudora and Blat,
is it coming from the same computer
(IP Address)?"
The X-Originating-IP is the same. Maybe
Eric would send you a pair of email's.
Your eyes are far more experienced that mine.
Namtog
Tim Musson
2007-01-12 20:50:10 UTC
Permalink
Sure, send me a pair.

x> I can do that if Tim wants.
Maybe Eric would send you a pair of email's. Your eyes are far more
experienced that mine.
--
Tim Musson
Flying with The Bat! eMail v3.95.6
Cheerios = Doughnut Seeds ? think about it...
Blat Manager, current version is 2.6.1, see www.blat.net
namtog
2007-01-12 21:18:33 UTC
Permalink
Greetings,

Eric wrote;
"I should say that we regard this as an MX
Logic problem..."

Yeah it is. but that's the beauty of OSS.
Right now Blat declares it's self;

Blat v2.5.0 w/GSS encryption, a Win32 SMTP/NNTP mailer
http://www.blat.ne

With a small change to the source it could
announce it's self as;

QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0

So even if MX Logic leaves you high and dry
you could still get your job done.

Then Eric wrote;
"We have gotten a response from MX
Logic saying that their Threat Department
will investigate and maybe adjust the
rules in 24 to 48 hrs."

Threat Department, cool name, sounds so
official. I may change my handle to
Namtog 007.

Since you only run this job once in a while
it's no biggie if it takes them a few days.

If, on the other hand, you are a retail outlet
who confirms all sales with email their time
frame would not do. I'm surprised the MX Logic
customers put up with it.

Blat Threat Assessor,
Namtog
x243win
2007-01-15 19:09:41 UTC
Permalink
Hi Tim. I will send you shortly a message from Eudora and from Blat.
The subject lines will be "MX Logic Test from <program name>".

Thanks. -Eric
Post by Tim Musson
Sure, send me a pair.
x> I can do that if Tim wants.
Maybe Eric would send you a pair of email's. Your eyes are far more
experienced that mine.
--
Tim Musson
Flying with The Bat! eMail v3.95.6
Cheerios = Doughnut Seeds ? think about it...
Blat Manager, current version is 2.6.1, see www.blat.net
Tim Musson
2007-01-16 13:34:09 UTC
Permalink
Hey Eric,

On Friday, January 12, 2007 at 3:50:10 PM you wrote

TM> Sure, send me a pair.

Your first Received: line is a bit different. Eudora uses the FQDN and
Blat uses just the computer name. Try adding the following;
-hostname ERIC1.librarytech.com

You have tried stripping the X-Mailer: header with -noh2 and that
didn't do any thing...

The Message-Id: header is also different. Not easy to change that one.

Of course, your From:, Date:, and Subject: headers are different.

The final thing I see different is the Content-Type: header and that
shouldn't have anything to do with it. You could try to change it with
-charset US-ASCII

I will send you the differences in a direct mailing...
--
Tim Musson
Flying with The Bat! eMail v3.95.6
They say you can't have too much of a good thing, wish I'd been part
of that study.
Blat Manager, current version is 2.6.1, see www.blat.net
namtog
2007-01-16 15:31:00 UTC
Permalink
Greetings,

Originally I asked Eric to send me his test email
privately, incase there was something he didn't
want published on a public newsgroup. I see that
this is not a concern.

All the better.

The header files of both his test email look
good to me. Why MX Logic allows Eudora and blocks
Blat is a mystery.

Perhaps the old adage "many hands make lite work"
will come into play here and someone will notice
a irregularity.

Stymied,
Namtog
namtog
2007-01-16 20:27:09 UTC
Permalink
Greetings,

I was discussing the problem in this thread with
a friend and he suggested a alternative that
would give you more control. ASSP;

http://www.asspsmtp.org/wiki/Welcome

To see if ASSP is for you check out;

http://www.asspsmtp.org/wiki/Is_Assp_For_Me

I can imagine that it is frustrating not to be
able to white list Blat. Or any other email's
you are having a problem with. Is there no way
for a customer to enact a manual change to
the MX Logic allowed list? The MX Logic
Administrative and Reporting Tools page;

http://www.mxlogic.com/technology/mxcontrol_console/index.cfm

seems to suggest otherwise.

You can log on to the control console here;

http://portal.mxlogic.com/

There is no personnel interest on my part with
MX Logic, I don't believe I heard of it until
Eric posted here. My friend's ASSP setup has
no difficulty with Blat, as long as the rest
of the spam rules are followed.

Just musing,
Namtog

x243win
2007-01-12 20:21:49 UTC
Permalink
Yes. Thanks.
Post by Tim Musson
n> These are some of the differences.
I had another though.
When you send from Eudora and Blat, is it coming from the same
computer (IP Address)?
--
Tim Musson
Flying with The Bat! eMail v3.95.6
They call it PMS because MadCow Disease was already taken.
Blat Manager, current version is 2.6.1, see www.blat.net
Tim Musson
2007-01-12 12:27:19 UTC
Permalink
Hey x243win,

On Thursday, January 11, 2007 at 2:37:46 PM you wrote

x> We seem to suddenly be having problems with MX Logic classifying
x> mail sent with blat as spam.

x> As a test, we sent mail from person A to B with bcc to C (all
x> addresses within our domain) using Eudora and everything worked
x> fine.

x> Then we did the same scenario using blat and both the message and
x> the bcc landed in the recipients spam boxes at MX Logic. We tried
x> it without the bcc and it still got filtered.

x> Has anyone else seen anything like this?

I have heard of it, but it isn't common that I am aware of. One thing
you could try is adding the -noh2 option and see if that helps.

-noh : prevent X-Mailer/User-Agent header from showing Blat homepage
-noh2 : prevent X-Mailer header entirely
--
Tim Musson
Flying with The Bat! eMail v3.95.6
Luxuriantly hand-crafted from only the finest ASCII.
Blat Manager, current version is 2.6.1, see www.blat.net
x243win
2007-01-12 15:38:56 UTC
Permalink
Tim,
Thanks for the suggestion. I tried adding -noh2 and it did not seem
to make a difference.

Thank you very much for your help.
-Eric
Post by Tim Musson
Hey x243win,
x> We seem to suddenly be having problems with MX Logic classifying
x> mail sent with blat as spam.
x> As a test, we sent mail from person A to B with bcc to C (all
x> addresses within our domain) using Eudora and everything worked
x> fine.
x> Then we did the same scenario using blat and both the message and
x> the bcc landed in the recipients spam boxes at MX Logic. We tried
x> it without the bcc and it still got filtered.
x> Has anyone else seen anything like this?
I have heard of it, but it isn't common that I am aware of. One thing
you could try is adding the -noh2 option and see if that helps.
-noh : prevent X-Mailer/User-Agent header from showing Blat homepage
-noh2 : prevent X-Mailer header entirely
--
Tim Musson
Flying with The Bat! eMail v3.95.6
Luxuriantly hand-crafted from only the finest ASCII.
Blat Manager, current version is 2.6.1, see www.blat.net
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