535 Authorization failed

[Chris]

I'm new to blat so please let me know if this is something I should be
able to figure out in a jif. I just downloaded a couple days ago and
am using version v2.2.2. I'm trying to adapt the example on the blat
homepage to work for my personal email. When executing the script I
get this in the logs:

2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 250-smtp8
02.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 250-PIPELINING
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 250 8BITMIME
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): >>>putline>>> AUTH PLAIN
AGNqYWNrc29uMABtaWNoaWdhbg==
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 535 authorization failed
(#5.7.0)
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): The SMTP server did not accept Auth PLAIN
value.
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): >>>putline>>> QUIT
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 221 smtp8
02.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun)-------------End of Session------------------

Whether or not I use the -u username and -pw password tags I get this
error. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,
Chris








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[Chip]

Post by Chris
I'm new to blat so please let me know if this is something I should be
able to figure out in a jif. I just downloaded a couple days ago and
am using version v2.2.2. I'm trying to adapt the example on the blat
homepage to work for my personal email. When executing the script I
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 250-smtp8
02.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 250-PIPELINING
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 250 8BITMIME
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): >>>putline>>> AUTH PLAIN
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 535 authorization failed
(#5.7.0)
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): The SMTP server did not accept Auth PLAIN
value.
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): >>>putline>>> QUIT
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 221 smtp8
02.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun)-------------End of Session------------------
Whether or not I use the -u username and -pw password tags I get this
error. What am I doing wrong?
Thanks,
Chris

"What am I doing wrong?" Actually, nothing. However, you have uncovered a
latent bug in Blat, a stupid oversight on my part, and this bug only appears
when using AUTH PLAIN. I corrected it just moments ago, thanks to this
message. If you can wait about a week, we'll get a new version tested and
posted that will include this fix, among other enhancements.

Chip



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[Corp Library]

Chip,

Post by Chip
If you can wait about a week, we'll get a new version tested and
and posted that will include this fix, among other enhancements.

I'm excited to hear about a new release of Blat! Please don't beat
yourself up over a bug, I think everyone on this list and all those who
aren't are VERY grateful for the efforts of you and Tim. I certaininly
am!!!

Following my signature are notes and reproducible examples from an
exchange we had from May 2004 regarding how quotes are treated
differently between the EXE and DLL versions of Blat 222. Do you have
plans to address this issue in the upcoming release of Blat?

Either way, thanks again for supporting and enhancing Blat!

Malcolm


PART 1: Quotes in subject treated differently between EXE and DLL (May
2004)

I'm using Blat 222 and just noticed that the same subject parm with
protected quotes gets treated differently between the EXE and DLL
versions of Blat.

Here is a sample subject to verify this behavior:

-subject "The next word should be \"quoted\""

This works fine with the EXE version and produces the following subject:

<subject>
The next word should be "quoted"
</subject>

When using this exact same subject clause with the DLL version I get the
following subject:

<subject>
The next word should be \quoted\
</subject>

When looking at the -superdebugT -log output produced using BLAT.DLL I
see the following in the SMTP conversation ...

2004.05.11 09:54:07 (Tue): <<<getline<<< 221 Bye
2004.05.11 09:54:09 (Tue): Sending _18G0L7ZVI.HTM to [addresses
ommitted]
2004.05.11 09:54:09 (Tue): Subject: The next word should be \quoted\
2004.05.11 09:54:09 (Tue): Login name is Blat <***@bdurham.com>

followed later by ...

X-Mailer: Blat v2.2.2, a Win32 SMTP/NNTP mailer http://www.blat.net
Message-ID: <01c43760$Blat.v2.2.2$***@messagingengine.com>
Subject: The next word should be \quoted\
MIME-Version: 1.0

So my conclusion is that the DLL version of Blat is parsing or
pre-processing parms differently than the EXE version?

Or perhaps I'm doing something wrong my side?

PS: Here's my entire command string broken out by clause for
readability:

_18G0MGBHU.TXT -binary
-serverSMTP "mail.domain.com"
-u "username"
-pw "password"
-try "1"
-ti "10"
-log "_18G0MGBHU.LOG"
-timestamp -superdebugt
-f "<***@domain.com>"
-to "<***@domain.com>"
-s "Mytest with \"quoted\""

...

PART 2: Quotes handled differently for email addresses as well

MMG: Blat 222: As a follow-up to your suggestion that I backslash quotes
in my email addresses, (re: "\Last, First" ***@domain.com) and in
parallel with this thread, I believe that BLAT.DLL handles quote parsing
differently across not only the subject field, but also the from, to,
cc, and bcc fields.

Your address quoting technique works great for BLAT.EXE but fails using
BLAT.DLL with exactly the same symptoms as what's happening in the
subject field.

To summarize the quote parsing behavior I'm seeing in BLAT.DLL - when
BLAT.DLL sees backslashed quotes in a string its parsing it removes the
quote and keeps the backslash.

Passed in to BLAT.DLL: -subject "This is \"quoted\" material"
Passed out by BLAT.DLL: -subject "This is \quoted\ material"

Passed in to BLAT.DLL: -to "\"Last, First\" ***@domain.com"
Passed out by BLAT.DLL: -to "\Last, First\ ***@domain.com"


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[Chip]

Post by Corp Library
Chip,

Post by Chip
If you can wait about a week, we'll get a new version tested and
and posted that will include this fix, among other enhancements.

I'm excited to hear about a new release of Blat! Please don't beat
yourself up over a bug, I think everyone on this list and all those who
aren't are VERY grateful for the efforts of you and Tim. I certaininly
am!!!
Following my signature are notes and reproducible examples from an
exchange we had from May 2004 regarding how quotes are treated
differently between the EXE and DLL versions of Blat 222. Do you have
plans to address this issue in the upcoming release of Blat?
Either way, thanks again for supporting and enhancing Blat!
Malcolm

<snip>

Quotes should be handled the same between the .exe and .dll. If I have
overlooked something when I was in that subroutine, holler.

Chip



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[Corp Library]

Chip,

See my original "Upcoming version of Blat" post. Following my signature
are two reproducible examples of how Blat 222 handles backslash
delimited quotes (\") differently between the DLL and EXE versions of
Blat.

If you turn on superdebug and review what Blat is sending to the SMTP
server you will see that the EXE version of Blat 222 properly parses and
sends subject and email addresses with backslash delimited quotes. When
you use the DLL version of Blat 222 you will see that Blat mistakenly
converts (\") to (\) when sending subject and email address strings to
an SMTP server.

If you need more info or would like me to resend my original message,
please let me know. You can also contact me directly at:

mgreene at bdurham.com.

Regards,
Malcolm


----- Original message -----
From: "Chip" <***@att.net>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 10:03:11 -0500
Subject: Re: [blat] Upcoming version of Blat

Post by Corp Library
Chip,

Post by Chip
If you can wait about a week, we'll get a new version tested and
and posted that will include this fix, among other enhancements.

I'm excited to hear about a new release of Blat! Please don't beat
yourself up over a bug, I think everyone on this list and all those who
aren't are VERY grateful for the efforts of you and Tim. I certaininly
am!!!
Following my signature are notes and reproducible examples from an
exchange we had from May 2004 regarding how quotes are treated
differently between the EXE and DLL versions of Blat 222. Do you have
plans to address this issue in the upcoming release of Blat?
Either way, thanks again for supporting and enhancing Blat!
Malcolm

<snip>

Quotes should be handled the same between the .exe and .dll. If I have
overlooked something when I was in that subroutine, holler.

Chip

[namtog]

Greetings,

Chip wrote "Maybe someone with a paid Yahoo account can step in and
say how the userid needs to be formatted."

As a alternative in the future try Ypops;
http://yahoopops.sourceforge.net/

From the Ypops website;

Welcome to the YPOPs! Website.

YPOPs! is an application that provides POP3 access to Yahoo! Mail.
It is available on the Windows, Linux, Solaris and Mac platforms.

Yahoo! Mail disabled free access to its POP3 service on 24th April,
2002.
This application emulates a POP3 server and enables popular email
clients
like Outlook, Netscape, Eudora, Mozilla, etc., to download email
from
Yahoo! accounts. We do not go against the license agreements of
Yahoo!
Mail. This application is completely legitimate and well within the
realms of legal software.

How do we do it you ask? Well, this application is more like a
gateway.
It provides a POP3 server interface at one end to talk to email
clients
and an HTTP client (browser) interface at the other which allows it
to talk to Yahoo!

I've been using Ypops and Blat for over a year now. Have yet to
experience
a problem.

Next, is there a reason Corp Library problem with the DLL version
of Blat was ignored?
"When you use the DLL version of Blat 222 you will see that Blat
mistakenly converts (\") to (\) when sending subject and email
address strings to an SMTP server."

Finally, any hints as to the enhancements in the next version of
Blat?

Thanks,
Namtog





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[Chip]

<snipped>

Post by namtog
Next, is there a reason Corp Library problem with the DLL version
of Blat was ignored?
"When you use the DLL version of Blat 222 you will see that Blat
mistakenly converts (\") to (\) when sending subject and email
address strings to an SMTP server."
Finally, any hints as to the enhancements in the next version of
Blat?
Thanks,
Namtog

I am sorry if I gave the impression that "Corp Library"'s comments appeared
to be ignored. The truth is that I was inside that parsing routine to
examine what I did a while back and made some adjustments. I believe the
quotes are handled the same now between the DLL and EXE versions, but I
shall check again this evening.

Hints -8^)

[+] Support for CRAM-MD5 authentication

[+] Support for GSSAPI authentication and message encryption

[+] added "To: Undisclosed recipients:;" when only using the -bcc option.
This is in RFC 2822.

[+] added "forced" authentication for NNTP if -u/-pw options are used. This
means that if the server does not specifically request authentication,
Blat will attempt it anyway if the userid is specified on the command
line.

[+] added support for format=flowed when adding alternate text. This was
not added for the regular message body since the message could be
binary.

[+] added -af, -atf, and -aef options that take a filename parameter. These
new options are for using a file that contains a list of attachments to
be sent. -Af is for binary files, similar to using -attach. -Atf is
for text files, like using -attacht. Lastly, -aef is for embedded files
in the same way as using -embed option. Each attachment named can be on
separate lines, or be separated by commas. Quotation marks (") are not
needed. Do not use two backslash characters for your path delimiter.

There is more ...



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[Chip]

Post by Corp Library

Post by Chip
If you can wait about a week, we'll get a new version tested and
and posted that will include this fix, among other enhancements.

I'm excited to hear about a new release of Blat! Please don't beat
yourself up over a bug, I think everyone on this list and all those who
aren't are VERY grateful for the efforts of you and Tim. I certaininly
am!!!
Following my signature are notes and reproducible examples from an
exchange we had from May 2004 regarding how quotes are treated
differently between the EXE and DLL versions of Blat 222. Do you have
plans to address this issue in the upcoming release of Blat?
Either way, thanks again for supporting and enhancing Blat!
Malcolm
PART 1: Quotes in subject treated differently between EXE and DLL (May
2004)
I'm using Blat 222 and just noticed that the same subject parm with
protected quotes gets treated differently between the EXE and DLL
versions of Blat.
-subject "The next word should be \"quoted\""
<subject>
The next word should be "quoted"
</subject>
When using this exact same subject clause with the DLL version I get the
<subject>
The next word should be \quoted\
</subject>
When looking at the -superdebugT -log output produced using BLAT.DLL I
see the following in the SMTP conversation ...
2004.05.11 09:54:07 (Tue): <<<getline<<< 221 Bye
2004.05.11 09:54:09 (Tue): Sending _18G0L7ZVI.HTM to [addresses
ommitted]
2004.05.11 09:54:09 (Tue): Subject: The next word should be \quoted\
followed later by ...
X-Mailer: Blat v2.2.2, a Win32 SMTP/NNTP mailer http://www.blat.net
Subject: The next word should be \quoted\
MIME-Version: 1.0
So my conclusion is that the DLL version of Blat is parsing or
pre-processing parms differently than the EXE version?
Or perhaps I'm doing something wrong my side?
PS: Here's my entire command string broken out by clause for
_18G0MGBHU.TXT -binary
-serverSMTP "mail.domain.com"
-u "username"
-pw "password"
-try "1"
-ti "10"
-log "_18G0MGBHU.LOG"
-timestamp -superdebugt
-s "Mytest with \"quoted\""
...
PART 2: Quotes handled differently for email addresses as well
MMG: Blat 222: As a follow-up to your suggestion that I backslash quotes
parallel with this thread, I believe that BLAT.DLL handles quote parsing
differently across not only the subject field, but also the from, to,
cc, and bcc fields.
Your address quoting technique works great for BLAT.EXE but fails using
BLAT.DLL with exactly the same symptoms as what's happening in the
subject field.
To summarize the quote parsing behavior I'm seeing in BLAT.DLL - when
BLAT.DLL sees backslashed quotes in a string its parsing it removes the
quote and keeps the backslash.
Passed in to BLAT.DLL: -subject "This is \"quoted\" material"
Passed out by BLAT.DLL: -subject "This is \quoted\ material"

I debugged through a simple C program that runs Blat.dll (v2.40) to send a
test message to myself. Here is my C source line:

retval = blat_send("D:\\wave.htm " \
"-s \"testing \\\"blat.dll\\\"\" " \
"-p attmail " \
"-t \"<***@att.net>\" " \
"-alttextf D:\\wave.txt " \
"-attach \"d:\\blatdll\\blatdll.cpp\" " \
"-superdebugt " \
"-noh2 " \
"-log \"C:\\smtp.log\"");

The subject line that was sent is: testing "blat.dll"

Chip



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[Corp Library]

Chip!

Thank you very much! I'm looking forward to 2.40!

BTW: What is the logic you use for your version numbering scheme
(moving from 2.22 to 2.40)?

I ask because I also develop software and my system for version
numbering (pulling "sounds good to me" numbers out of the air) is
difficult to proceduralize.

Thanks!
Malcolm


----- Original message -----
From: "Chip" <***@att.net>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 22:52:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [blat] Upcoming version of Blat

Post by Corp Library

Post by Chip
If you can wait about a week, we'll get a new version tested and
and posted that will include this fix, among other enhancements.

I'm excited to hear about a new release of Blat! Please don't beat
yourself up over a bug, I think everyone on this list and all those who
aren't are VERY grateful for the efforts of you and Tim. I certaininly
am!!!
Following my signature are notes and reproducible examples from an
exchange we had from May 2004 regarding how quotes are treated
differently between the EXE and DLL versions of Blat 222. Do you have
plans to address this issue in the upcoming release of Blat?
Either way, thanks again for supporting and enhancing Blat!
Malcolm
PART 1: Quotes in subject treated differently between EXE and DLL (May
2004)
I'm using Blat 222 and just noticed that the same subject parm with
protected quotes gets treated differently between the EXE and DLL
versions of Blat.
-subject "The next word should be \"quoted\""
<subject>
The next word should be "quoted"
</subject>
When using this exact same subject clause with the DLL version I get the
<subject>
The next word should be \quoted\
</subject>
When looking at the -superdebugT -log output produced using BLAT.DLL I
see the following in the SMTP conversation ...
2004.05.11 09:54:07 (Tue): <<<getline<<< 221 Bye
2004.05.11 09:54:09 (Tue): Sending _18G0L7ZVI.HTM to [addresses
ommitted]
2004.05.11 09:54:09 (Tue): Subject: The next word should be \quoted\
followed later by ...
X-Mailer: Blat v2.2.2, a Win32 SMTP/NNTP mailer http://www.blat.net
Subject: The next word should be \quoted\
MIME-Version: 1.0
So my conclusion is that the DLL version of Blat is parsing or
pre-processing parms differently than the EXE version?
Or perhaps I'm doing something wrong my side?
PS: Here's my entire command string broken out by clause for
_18G0MGBHU.TXT -binary
-serverSMTP "mail.domain.com"
-u "username"
-pw "password"
-try "1"
-ti "10"
-log "_18G0MGBHU.LOG"
-timestamp -superdebugt
-s "Mytest with \"quoted\""
...
PART 2: Quotes handled differently for email addresses as well
MMG: Blat 222: As a follow-up to your suggestion that I backslash quotes
parallel with this thread, I believe that BLAT.DLL handles quote parsing
differently across not only the subject field, but also the from, to,
cc, and bcc fields.
Your address quoting technique works great for BLAT.EXE but fails using
BLAT.DLL with exactly the same symptoms as what's happening in the
subject field.
To summarize the quote parsing behavior I'm seeing in BLAT.DLL - when
BLAT.DLL sees backslashed quotes in a string its parsing it removes the
quote and keeps the backslash.
Passed in to BLAT.DLL: -subject "This is \"quoted\" material"
Passed out by BLAT.DLL: -subject "This is \quoted\ material"

I debugged through a simple C program that runs Blat.dll (v2.40) to send
a
test message to myself. Here is my C source line:

retval = blat_send("D:\\wave.htm " \
"-s \"testing \\\"blat.dll\\\"\" " \
"-p attmail " \
"-t \"<***@att.net>\" " \
"-alttextf D:\\wave.txt " \
"-attach \"d:\\blatdll\\blatdll.cpp\" " \
"-superdebugt " \
"-noh2 " \
"-log \"C:\\smtp.log\"");

The subject line that was sent is: testing "blat.dll"

Chip

[Chip]

Post by Corp Library
Chip!
Thank you very much! I'm looking forward to 2.40!
BTW: What is the logic you use for your version numbering scheme
(moving from 2.22 to 2.40)?
I ask because I also develop software and my system for version
numbering (pulling "sounds good to me" numbers out of the air) is
difficult to proceduralize.
Thanks!
Malcolm

A fellow at MIT added GSSAPI to Blat and called it version 2.30. I did not
want to confuse matters any more than I already have during the intervening
months, so I bumped ahead to 2.40.

X.y.z versioning -- z changes with bug fixes, not normally visible to users.
y changes with enough enhancements to warrant, usually something a user
would notice. x changes with a redesign.


Chip



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[chipprogrammer]

Post by Chris
I'm new to blat so please let me know if this is something I should be
able to figure out in a jif. I just downloaded a couple days ago and
am using version v2.2.2. I'm trying to adapt the example on the blat
homepage to work for my personal email. When executing the script I
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 250-smtp8
02.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 250-PIPELINING
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 250 8BITMIME
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): >>>putline>>> AUTH PLAIN AGJlZXIAbnV0cw=
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 535 authorization failed
(#5.7.0)
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): The SMTP server did not accept Auth PLAIN
value.
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): >>>putline>>> QUIT
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 221 smtp8
02.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun)-------------End of Session------------------
Whether or not I use the -u username and -pw password tags I get this
error. What am I doing wrong?
Thanks,
Chris

Update --

After doing some research this mroning, the output from Blat is
exactly right. RFC 2595 (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2595.txt) states
the AUTH PLAIN value consists of three parts -- authentication
identity, userid, and password, each separated by a binary 00. The
paragraph is here:

The mechanism consists of a single message from the client to the
server. The client sends the authorization identity (identity to
login as), followed by a US-ASCII NUL character, followed by the
authentication identity (identity whose password will be used),
followed by a US-ASCII NUL character, followed by the clear-text
password. The client may leave the authorization identity empty to
indicate that it is the same as the authentication identity.

Post by Chris
From this, and examination of the Blat source, Blat was doing the

right thing with how it encoded the userid and password values.

Now to the problem at hand, how to make Blat talk to Yahoo's mail
server using AUTH PLAIN. I do not have a paid Yahoo account to verify
settings, so now I have to make a guess. Have you tried changing the
userid you send to include the @yahoo.com? Have you made sure the
password is correct, that it is case sensitive?

Maybe someone with a paid Yahoo account can step in and say how the
userid needs to be formatted.

Chip





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[Tim Musson]

Hey chipprogrammer,

On Monday, December 6, 2004 at 12:21:39 PM you wrote

c> Now to the problem at hand, how to make Blat talk to Yahoo's mail
c> server using AUTH PLAIN. I do not have a paid Yahoo account to verify
c> settings, so now I have to make a guess. Have you tried changing the
c> userid you send to include the @yahoo.com? Have you made sure the
c> password is correct, that it is case sensitive?

c> Maybe someone with a paid Yahoo account can step in and say how the
c> userid needs to be formatted.

I have have an account with a yahoo affiliate and you do need the full
eMail address (***@mail.tld) as the user id there...
--
Tim Musson
Flying with The Bat! eMail v2.12.00
Men are from here, and women are from way over there.
Blat Manager, current version is 2.2.2, see www.blat.net



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[Chip]

That did it. Thanks a bunch!

Post by chipprogrammer

Post by Chris
I'm new to blat so please let me know if this is something I should be
able to figure out in a jif. I just downloaded a couple days ago and
am using version v2.2.2. I'm trying to adapt the example on the blat
homepage to work for my personal email. When executing the script I
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 250-smtp8
02.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 250-PIPELINING
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 250 8BITMIME
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): >>>putline>>> AUTH PLAIN AGJlZXIAbnV0cw=
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 535 authorization failed
(#5.7.0)
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): The SMTP server did not accept Auth PLAIN
value.
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): >>>putline>>> QUIT
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun): <<<getline<<< 221 smtp8
02.mail.sc5.yahoo.com
2004.12.05 20:28:35 (Sun)-------------End of Session------------------
Whether or not I use the -u username and -pw password tags I get this
error. What am I doing wrong?
Thanks,
Chris

Update --
After doing some research this mroning, the output from Blat is
exactly right. RFC 2595 (http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2595.txt) states
the AUTH PLAIN value consists of three parts -- authentication
identity, userid, and password, each separated by a binary 00. The
The mechanism consists of a single message from the client to the
server. The client sends the authorization identity (identity to
login as), followed by a US-ASCII NUL character, followed by the
authentication identity (identity whose password will be used),
followed by a US-ASCII NUL character, followed by the clear-text
password. The client may leave the authorization identity empty to
indicate that it is the same as the authentication identity.
From this, and examination of the Blat source, Blat was doing the
right thing with how it encoded the userid and password values.
Now to the problem at hand, how to make Blat talk to Yahoo's mail
server using AUTH PLAIN. I do not have a paid Yahoo account to verify
settings, so now I have to make a guess. Have you tried changing the
password is correct, that it is case sensitive?
Maybe someone with a paid Yahoo account can step in and say how the
userid needs to be formatted.
Chip

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