Discussion:
Blat and PERL
(too old to reply)
David W.E. Roberts
2005-11-02 08:52:36 UTC
Permalink
Just in passing:

I note that in the FAQ there is a bit on how to use Blat in PERL, plus a
comment about "Why anyone wants to, when there are mail constructs built
into PERL..."

My view:

DOS command line sucks big time.
Looping and counting are not simple, unlike Unix shells such as sh, ksh,
bash etc.
There is no easy built in command line mail utility.
[In Unix, to send some messages you just knock together a 'for' or 'while'
loop along with the 'mail' 'mailx' or 'sendmail' command.]
So for the quick fix on Windoze you need:
(a) a command line mail utility (Blat)
(b) a shell style utility to do the looping and counting (PERL)
Quick two minutes with an editor and you have a flexible way of sending one
or many emails to a variety of recipients with a variety of contents.
You can also tinker and extend at your leisure - but the main thing is you
are sending your emails after just a few minutes work.

If you wanted to you could produce a PERL utility to replicate Blat - but
why bother when Blat is already there?
I certainly couldn't knock one together in a couple of minutes.

I now have a few '<filename>.pl' files - just double click in Windows
Explorer and the test mail is sent; same format every time, no worries.

Cheers

Dave R






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Tim Musson
2005-11-02 12:25:21 UTC
Permalink
Hey David,

On Wednesday, November 2, 2005 at 3:52:36 AM you wrote

DWER> Just in passing:

DWER> I note that in the FAQ there is a bit on how to use Blat in PERL, plus a
DWER> comment about "Why anyone wants to, when there are mail constructs built
DWER> into PERL..."

DWER> My view:
Thanks for posting it BTW! It is always good to have different views.
See mine below. (kind of why I put the above in the FAQ :)

DWER> DOS command line sucks big time.

I agree that the 16 bit DOS command line isn't very powerful, but (and
remember, I am NOT a MS fan...) the 32 bit CMD prompt is a different
beast completely. Just like in Unix, I drop to the command line all
the time to get work done so I can avoid using the GUI.

DWER> Looping and counting are not simple, unlike Unix shells such as sh, ksh,
DWER> bash etc.
DWER> There is no easy built in command line mail utility.
DWER> [In Unix, to send some messages you just knock together a 'for' or 'while'
DWER> loop along with the 'mail' 'mailx' or 'sendmail' command.]

The 'for' loop in Batch files is very powerful on WinNT and it's
children...

DWER> So for the quick fix on Windoze you need:
DWER> (a) a command line mail utility (Blat)
DWER> (b) a shell style utility to do the looping and counting (PERL)

Agreed.

DWER> Quick two minutes with an editor and you have a flexible way of
DWER> sending one or many emails to a variety of recipients with a
DWER> variety of contents. You can also tinker and extend at your
DWER> leisure - but the main thing is you are sending your emails
DWER> after just a few minutes work.

No question about that - if you know Perl.

DWER> If you wanted to you could produce a PERL utility to replicate Blat - but
DWER> why bother when Blat is already there?

Because it is already done also... I didn't make this up, and it
sends mail just fine. The only reason I call Blat from Perl is if I
need to add an attachment. It isn't really difficult, but I don't find
it simple either

,----- [ ]
| use Net::SMTP;
|
| my($mh, $MailTo, $Subject, $MessageBody);
| #don't forget to set each of the above!
|
| sub sendMail {
| my $smtp = Net::SMTP->new("$mh");
| $smtp->mail($MailTo); # envelope bits
| $smtp->to($MailTo); # envelope bits
| $smtp->data(); # Now for the message itself
| $smtp->datasend("From: $MailTo\n");
| $smtp->datasend("To: $MailTo\n");
| $smtp->datasend("Subject:$Subject\n\n");
| $smtp->datasend("$MessageBody");
| $smtp->dataend(); # end the message
| $smtp->quit;
| }
`-----

DWER> I certainly couldn't knock one together in a couple of minutes.

Now you don't need to! :) and what is nice about the above bit of code
is it will work under any OS as long as there is Perl and the
Net::SMTP module.

DWER> I now have a few '<filename>.pl' files - just double click in Windows
DWER> Explorer and the test mail is sent; same format every time, no worries.

I have the same thing in Batch and Perl...
--
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Flying with The Bat! eMail v2.12.00
I'm not crazy, I just have a unique sense of reality.
Blat Manager, current version is 2.5, see www.blat.net




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namtog1
2005-11-02 15:35:27 UTC
Permalink
Greetings,

Why to use Blat? Many reasons. First it's
really solid. How many times, even on this
board, has someone come up with a problem
with Blat itself. Almost all complaints resolve
to configuration of Blat or the way it is called.

It's easy and versatile. Use it from the command
line or as a cgi. Or if your a total wonk build
little hobby tools with it. (guilty)

Why use Perl with Blat? It's my favorite scripting
language. If it looks like static on your TV try
another. I wouldn't want to limit my self to it.
Nothing wrong with using a module (Blat) that is
written in another language. And yes, I still use
batch scripts when appropriate. It's true I'm as
old as dirt.

Tim thanks for putting up your example using Net::SMTP.
But in the section above it you wrote "The only reason
I call Blat from Perl is if I need to add an attachment."
I can't find the attachment part. Also Net::SMTP supports
AUTH. How are you incorpating it and the server info?
Are you storing these values in plain text.

Net::SMTP
http://search.cpan.org/~gbarr/libnet-1.19/Net/SMTP.pm


Blat lets one store AUTH info as a registry value.
Enough to keep my girlfriend from getting my
login info. She tried but can't figure out the
"strange writing". Of course it wouldn't even
be a challenge to a math geek. Myself I set server,
email address, login and password in Blat when I
use it for cgi. I did not use it for NCM, instead
I used a seperate module (crypt.pm) and stored the
info in text files. This way it will not conflict
or depend upon the Blat presets. When NCM is uninstalled
nothing else is affected.

Blat is fast. This may not mean much in todays
world but some of us run older hardware.

The YGB. I've seen a number of commercial projects
that don't offer support at this level.

Oh I could go on and on.

Namtog





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Tim Musson
2005-11-02 18:20:14 UTC
Permalink
Hey namtog1,

On Wednesday, November 2, 2005 at 10:35:27 AM you wrote

n> Greetings,

n> Why to use Blat? Many reasons. First it's
n> really solid. How many times, even on this
n> board, has someone come up with a problem
n> with Blat itself. Almost all complaints resolve
n> to configuration of Blat or the way it is called.

n> It's easy and versatile. Use it from the command
n> line or as a cgi. Or if your a total wonk build
n> little hobby tools with it. (guilty)

No arguments there... :) and I am guilty too...

n> Why use Perl with Blat? It's my favorite scripting
n> language.

Mine too, however...

n> If it looks like static on your TV try
n> another. I wouldn't want to limit my self to it.
n> Nothing wrong with using a module (Blat) that is
n> written in another language. And yes, I still use
n> batch scripts when appropriate. It's true I'm as
n> old as dirt.

n> Tim thanks for putting up your example using Net::SMTP.
n> But in the section above it you wrote "The only reason
n> I call Blat from Perl is if I need to add an attachment."
n> I can't find the attachment part.

Nope, it is *ugly* and not supported in the Net::SMTP module!
You need another module or 2 (which is why I would use Blat to send an
attachment if I was using Perl, and not Perl modules).

n> Also Net::SMTP supports
n> AUTH. How are you incorpating it and the server info?
n> Are you storing these values in plain text.

I haven't had to go there yet... :) The SMTP servers my Perl code hits
trust the IP it comes from and the sender (and is internal, sending to
internal).

n> Net::SMTP
n> http://search.cpan.org/~gbarr/libnet-1.19/Net/SMTP.pm

n> Blat lets one store AUTH info as a registry value.
n> Enough to keep my girlfriend from getting my
n> login info. She tried but can't figure out the
n> "strange writing".

LOL

n> Of course it wouldn't even
n> be a challenge to a math geek. Myself I set server,
n> email address, login and password in Blat when I
n> use it for cgi. I did not use it for NCM, instead
n> I used a seperate module (crypt.pm) and stored the
n> info in text files. This way it will not conflict
n> or depend upon the Blat presets. When NCM is uninstalled
n> nothing else is affected.

n> Blat is fast. This may not mean much in todays
n> world but some of us run older hardware.

Means a lot to me (even though I run on fairly current hardware...:)

n> The YGB. I've seen a number of commercial projects
n> that don't offer support at this level.

n> Oh I could go on and on.
--
Tim Musson
Flying with The Bat! eMail v2.12.00
When I was born I was so surprised I didn't talk for a year and a
half.
Blat Manager, current version is 2.5, see www.blat.net




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Gordon E. Peterson II
2005-11-02 22:45:42 UTC
Permalink
--- In ***@yahoogroups.com, Tim Musson <***@a...> wrote:
[snip]
Post by Tim Musson
n> Why use Perl with Blat? It's my favorite scripting
n> language.
Mine too, however...
Try SNOBOL4 or SPITBOL (SPITBOL is to SNOBOL4 sorta what Turbo Pascal
is to regular Pascal) sometime. :-)





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David W.E. Roberts
2005-11-02 22:13:22 UTC
Permalink
Tim,

I think you may have shot yourself very gently in the foot :-)

See below.

Dave R
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Musson
To: David W.E. Roberts
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [blat] Blat and PERL


Hey David,

On Wednesday, November 2, 2005 at 3:52:36 AM you wrote

DWER> Just in passing:

DWER> I note that in the FAQ there is a bit on how to use Blat in PERL, plus a
DWER> comment about "Why anyone wants to, when there are mail constructs built
DWER> into PERL..."

DWER> My view:
Thanks for posting it BTW! It is always good to have different views.
See mine below. (kind of why I put the above in the FAQ :)

DWER> DOS command line sucks big time.

I agree that the 16 bit DOS command line isn't very powerful, but (and
remember, I am NOT a MS fan...) the 32 bit CMD prompt is a different
beast completely. Just like in Unix, I drop to the command line all
the time to get work done so I can avoid using the GUI.

DWER> Looping and counting are not simple, unlike Unix shells such as sh, ksh,
DWER> bash etc.
DWER> There is no easy built in command line mail utility.
DWER> [In Unix, to send some messages you just knock together a 'for' or 'while'
DWER> loop along with the 'mail' 'mailx' or 'sendmail' command.]

The 'for' loop in Batch files is very powerful on WinNT and it's
children...

<snip>
Because it is already done also... I didn't make this up, and it
sends mail just fine. The only reason I call Blat from Perl is if I
need to add an attachment. It isn't really difficult, but I don't find
it simple either
<snip>

As extended in your other message, if you want to do anything more than a very simple message then PERL SMTP gets complicated.

That is why 'blat' is not like your short example :-)
I reckon there are a few more lines of code built in.

I note that you didn't include a 'CMD' script - which is the real issue.

If you have an equivalent 'for' or 'while' loop for the CMD prompt that would be a very useful illustration.

This would show the alternative to using PERL (or Cygwin- DOH! didn't think of that) to script 'blat'.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Tim Musson
2005-11-03 12:31:18 UTC
Permalink
Hey David,

On Wednesday, November 2, 2005 at 5:13:22 PM you wrote

DWER> I think you may have shot yourself very gently in the foot :-)
DWER> See below.

LOL

====8<---------------- snip

DWER> The 'for' loop in Batch files is very powerful on WinNT and it's
DWER> children...

DWER> <snip>
DWER> Because it is already done also... I didn't make this up,
DWER> and it sends mail just fine. The only reason I call Blat from
DWER> Perl is if I need to add an attachment. It isn't really
DWER> difficult, but I don't find it simple either
DWER> <snip>

DWER> As extended in your other message, if you want to do anything
DWER> more than a very simple message then PERL SMTP gets complicated.

Agreed, but most people that tend to ask for help using Perl to call
Blat on this list don't do the complicated stuff...

DWER> That is why 'blat' is not like your short example :-) I reckon
DWER> there are a few more lines of code built in.

LOL, just a few. :)

DWER> I note that you didn't include a 'CMD' script - which is the
DWER> real issue.

DWER> If you have an equivalent 'for' or 'while' loop for the CMD
DWER> prompt that would be a very useful illustration.

DWER> This would show the alternative to using PERL (or Cygwin- DOH!
DWER> didn't think of that) to script 'blat'.

Well, what would you like to see in a FOR DO loop? I have a number of
examples - some of them posted to the Blat Examples page
http://www.blat.net/examples/

The FORinDO link at the above URL shows how to itterate through a file
of eMail addresses. It also has some other Batch tricks in it (like
the first 3 lines of the address file is the Batch file).

If you have a more specific example of what you are looking for, I
could try to put something together (time permitting).
--
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Flying with The Bat! eMail v2.12.00
How come wrong numbers are never busy?
Blat Manager, current version is 2.5, see www.blat.net




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namtog
2005-11-05 18:46:16 UTC
Permalink
Greetings,

I feel like celebrating. My Yahoo account
namtog has been restored. It took half a
dozen or so emails but it is back. This is
the first time I've ever heard of a deactivated
Yahoo account being restored. You need to know
all of the security info you filled in when you
opened the account.

First David wrote;
DWER> If you have an equivalent 'for' or 'while' loop for the CMD
DWER> prompt that would be a very useful illustration

Then Tim responded;
Well, what would you like to see in a FOR DO loop? I have a number of
examples - some of them posted to the Blat Examples page
http://www.blat.net/examples/

My guess is you are referring to;
http://www.blat.net/examples/FORinDO.html

So here is a page with two examples.
http://geocities.com/namtog/FORinDO.htm

So if anyone else wants to, feel free to pop up
another example here. I will add it to my page.
C'mon I know some of you have plenty. Share the wealth.

Happy to be me again,
namtog
***@yahoo.com
namtog at yahoo dot com






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David W.E. Roberts
2005-11-05 20:48:51 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
First David wrote;
DWER> If you have an equivalent 'for' or 'while' loop for the CMD
DWER> prompt that would be a very useful illustration

Then Tim responded;
Well, what would you like to see in a FOR DO loop? I have a number of
examples - some of them posted to the Blat Examples page
http://www.blat.net/examples/

My guess is you are referring to;
http://www.blat.net/examples/FORinDO.html

So here is a page with two examples.
http://geocities.com/namtog/FORinDO.htm

So if anyone else wants to, feel free to pop up
another example here. I will add it to my page.
C'mon I know some of you have plenty. Share the wealth.
<snip>

I looked at the Command Prompt examples and winced a little.
Not the most intuitive and readable syntax.

My scripting is very simplistic, sort of:
[Note that I don't have my actual script or PERL for idiots book with me]

counter = 0;
while counter < 10;
do;
$result = 'blat <parameters>';
counter++;
done;

This is just a simple 6 line script which shoots off 10 test messages.

If you use a text file for the message, and a text file to hold the address,
then it is very easy to generate a small number of test messages very
quickly and repeat consistently.

In this case PERL + blat is a very easy way.

If you want to get more sophisitcated then there are other ways to do it,
but for me at this level I like the simple option :-)

Cheers
Dave R




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Kevin van Houten
2005-11-05 20:57:57 UTC
Permalink
Quoting David W.E. Roberts..
Post by David W.E. Roberts
[Note that I don't have my actual script or PERL for idiots book with me]
counter = 0;
while counter < 10;
do;
$result = 'blat <parameters>';
counter++;
done;
Using the "$" for the scaler variable $counter, and using the
"`" instead of "'" would be a big improvement. ;)
--
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... 'But will those stains EVER come out of the ceiling...'-
Qe'van


LD 2004-11-10
2005-01-02
2005-04-01




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Tim Musson
2005-11-05 23:29:14 UTC
Permalink
Hey David,

On Saturday, November 5, 2005 at 3:48:51 PM you wrote

DWER> I looked at the Command Prompt examples and winced a little.
DWER> Not the most intuitive and readable syntax.

DWER> My scripting is very simplistic, sort of:
DWER> [Note that I don't have my actual script or PERL for idiots book with me]

DWER> counter = 0;
DWER> while counter < 10;
DWER> do;
DWER> $result = 'blat <parameters>';
DWER> counter++;
DWER> done;

DWER> This is just a simple 6 line script which shoots off 10 test messages.

DWER> If you use a text file for the message, and a text file to hold the address,
DWER> then it is very easy to generate a small number of test messages very
DWER> quickly and repeat consistently.

DWER> In this case PERL + blat is a very easy way.

DWER> If you want to get more sophisitcated then there are other ways to do it,
DWER> but for me at this level I like the simple option :-)

Ok, I can do the exact same thing in a Batch FOR DO loop like this:

,----- [ ]
| for /L %%i in (1,1,9) do Blat <options>
`-----

I would do your Perl bit above like this though...

,----- [ ]
| my $counter = 0;
| while ($counter < 10) {
| $result = 'blat <parameters>';
| $counter++;
| }
`-----
--
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Flying with The Bat! eMail v2.12.00
I smile! because I don't know what the hell is going on.
Blat Manager, current version is 2.5, see www.blat.net




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Kevin van Houten
2005-11-02 20:10:41 UTC
Permalink
Quoting Tim Musson..
Post by Tim Musson
DWER> DOS command line sucks big time.
I agree that the 16 bit DOS command line isn't very powerful, but (and
remember, I am NOT a MS fan...) the 32 bit CMD prompt is a different beast
completely. Just like in Unix, I drop to the command line all the time to
get work done so I can avoid using the GUI.
And, to take it even further off-topic, if you really, really
want the best of both worlds, install the Cygwin 'Linux-like'
environment for Windows. http://www.cygwin.com

Cygwin is a bash shell, plus many other utilities for Windows. It
comes with perl, of course, and just about every *NIX utility
I've ever dreamed of using, short of something very specific like
AIX's "smitty".

Being that blat is a windows console tool, it works perfectly
with the Cygwin bash shell as well.

***@gimli ~
$ blat - -t myself -s "Test Message" -body "Would you believe I am calling blat|from Cygwin?"
Blat v2.5.0 w/GSS encryption (build : Sep 14 2005 22:46:29)

Sending stdin.txt to ***@yahoo.com
Subject: Test Message
Login name is ***@yahoo.com

Seconds later, that email showed up in my email client of choise.
:)

Cygwin even has a handy-dandy X-Server part, so you can save the
money you might have sent Hummingbird for 'Exceed' if you need a
good program for displaying and working with X-Windows Apps.

***@gimli ~
$ startx &
[1] 3532

Welcome to the XWin X Server
Vendor: The Cygwin/X Project
Release: 6.8.2.0-4
Contact: cygwin-***@cygwin.com
XWin was started with the following command line:
X :0 -multiwindow -clipboard

And *poof* a real resizeable xterm command window for my Windows
XP machine opens up. :)

Hmmm...now I decide I want to display the login desktop for a
couple of Linux boxes I have named 'grima' & 'hama'...no problem.
I'll use that handy xterm window to make the call to bring them
up. I'm using output redirection in the following commands to
not display the stdout & stderr of the xwin command...

***@gimli ~
$ xwin :1 -query grima > /dev/null 2>&1 &
[1] 2760

***@gimli ~
$ xwin :2 -query hama > /dev/null 2>&1 &
[2] 2984

*poof* 2 Linux Login screens are there on my Windows machine in
all their glory.. :)

So, now I'm logged into my XP box, using the windows tools I
like, with the Free Cygwin/X running, using the *NIX tools I
like, and simultaneously logged into 2 Linux desktops, doing
practical work on them as well, using the same monitors for all,
switching as I need to. Having 2 monitors on this machine helps,
but it's not necessary. :)

The full install of 'everything' Cygin is about 500MB. You only
need to install as much of it as you need or want though. It is
a handy-dandy tool I find much use for both in concert with blat
and outside of it...and it is free, of course. GPL license.
--
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Tim Musson
2005-11-02 20:51:04 UTC
Permalink
Hey Kevin,

On Wednesday, November 2, 2005 at 3:10:41 PM you wrote

KvH> Cygwin is a bash shell, plus many other utilities for Windows. It
KvH> comes with perl, of course, and just about every *NIX utility
KvH> I've ever dreamed of using, short of something very specific like
KvH> AIX's "smitty".

I have looked at Cygwin (not the Xwin part though, I will keep that in
mind! Thanks!) and found it to be more than I want. I like the
individual tools port collection at http://unxutils.sourceforge.net/
--
Tim Musson
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Never miss a good chance to shut up.
Blat Manager, current version is 2.5, see www.blat.net




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